CreditCards | Rapidshare and Megaupload | Mortgage Calculator | Repair Bad Credit | Debt Help
Socialism and Communism are not dirty words anymore [Archive] - GeoPakistani Forums

PDA

View Full Version : Socialism and Communism are not dirty words anymore


Dr_Eggman
19th July 2005, 05:25
I'll explain my topic title.

No nation to date has practiced real socialism or real communism.

The old Soviet Union were just a dictatorship with a new face. Not a dictatorship of the proletarian (working people) but dictatorships of the elite.

A true Socialist state can only come about in a democracy, specifically a representative democracy (like the United States at the federal level).

A true Communist state also must be in a democracy. This time, however, a direct democracy (like Switzerland, albeit Switzerland and the United States are both not or have not claimed to be Socialist or Communist states).

But it is not only government that needs a change, change also needs to happen in the case of corporations and companies. Instead of being owned by heirs to fortunes, they should be owned by a union composed of the workers themselves. If we could start there with corporations and other companies, then governments would be soon to follow.

Some of you may be saying that Communism and Socialism are atheist. This is incorrect, this was not from the teachings of Socialism or Communism (though Marx himself was an atheist) but instead was imposed by dictatorships. A real Socialist or Communist nation would have religious tolerance. This means that a Christian can be a Socialist, a Jew can be a Socialist, and even a Muslim can be a Socialist.

China, North Korea, and the old Soviet Union were not and in the case of China and North Korea, still aren't true Socialist or Communist countries.

Just as the Ku Klux Klan and recent fundamentalist "Christians" have disgraced the name of Christianity, the Jewish Defense Leagye has disgraced the name of Judaism, and Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups have disgraced the name of Islam, so too has the Soviet Union, China, and North Korea disgraced the name of Socialism and Communism.

One also must realize that capitalism and democracy are not directly connected. Democracy is independent from capitalism and capitalism is independent of democracy. We can say that since China (a cliamed "Communist state") really practices what most would call capitalism and yet they do not practice democracy as most know it.

When one says Socialist or Communist, one would probably think of men dressed in uniforms or white men with long hair in protests. However, real Socialists and Communists can wear clothes that one could recognize. They could be wearing overalls, a welder's outfit, a boat captain's suit, teenage clothes, the cloths of a priest, the cloths of an imam, the cloths of a rabbi, or any other such clothing. We are not bound by clothing nor of race, gender, nationality, nor religion.

Socialists in the United States in the 1930s, people forming workers' unions, helped to give workers rights and not have to slave like animals for a greedy parasite who just sat on his ass, collecting the money by just owning the company.

Socialists in the United States in the 1960s, also fought for the equality of their black neighbors. Again, they also fought in the 1970s for the equality of women in the work place, if they so chose to have a job, etc.

So, in Afghanistan in the 1970s and 1980s, they weren't fighting Socialism nor Communism, but a nation that claimed that they were Communist. The Afghanistanis were fighting because they were being occupied, which one would be expected to do until their country is no longer occupied.

sibtain
19th July 2005, 07:13
can u make this a lil short like a summary bc its gonna take a long time to read this there in no point to write this long u can write a lil and tell us all but still i appreciate that wht r u doing but its just an advice..........than everyone can save sometime........lol

ali_shah
19th July 2005, 07:30
I have one sentence to write about it.

"Might is Right"

After the Cold war is over and soviet union collapsed, everybody knows now that the war was not against communism or socialism or anything else, but one super power didn't want a rival and challenger to its authority.

so all the talk about communism or socialism is useless.

History tells us that whoever had the power they manipulated the facts and thinking of the people in their own favor.

V.I.P.
19th July 2005, 14:18
<span style="color:blue">hmm interesting post..

But your mixing up too many things ... including afghanis.. umm maybe I am wrong.. and I didn't get, what the last paragraphs have to do with the main topic.. mind to explore it a bit more..

anyways... refferring to your post...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
A true Communist state also must be in a democracy. This time, however, a direct democracy (like Switzerland, albeit Switzerland and the United States are both not or have not claimed to be Socialist or Communist states). [/b][/quote]
[color=blue]That doesn't make any sense to me.. if a "true" communist state, would be in a democracy.. why would it blamed as communism?</span>


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Some of you may be saying that Communism and Socialism are atheist. This is incorrect, this was not from the teachings of Socialism or Communism (though Marx himself was an atheist) but instead was imposed by dictatorships. A real Socialist or Communist nation would have religious tolerance. This means that a Christian can be a Socialist, a Jew can be a Socialist, and even a Muslim can be a Socialist.[/b][/quote]
If I am not wrong.. apart taht Marx was an atheist.. wasn't he a supporter of Kommunism?..maybe that I am totally wrong with that view.. hope anybody could correct myself.. if it is the case..

<span style="color:blue">btw, Marx ideologie.. of Socialism.. and Communism...
I didn't get his idea about it my whole life.. and don't think will ever understand it .. </span>

whyhkk
20th July 2005, 09:45
The ideal behind this two -isms is the key and is the way most of us want to live in . But the practice of these ideals is flawed which makes them look bad. We all want equal power to all working people, dont we?

Dr_Eggman
28th July 2005, 11:48
I feel... very angry ::verya:: when I read things that put down Socialism and Communism... like most of you feel when you read things that put down Islam.

They interpreted Karl Marx as condoning (saying it's all right) to get right of all religion. This is just not true. In fact, it was his mentor (teacher) who said "A Christian must be liberated once (from religion). A Jew must be liberated twice (once supposedly by converting to Christianity and then leave religion altogether)."

However, Karl Marx had Jewish blood, and found the statement very Christian ethnocentric (the world revolving around Christianity, the world from the viewpoint of Christianity only) and bordering on straight-out anti-Semitism. He made it more clear by saying that he himself (Marx) did not support the abolition (complete destruction) of religion nor the complete destruction of personal property but simply the removal of religion and personal property from politics.

In Prussia, where Karl Marx grew up, the state religion was Lutheranism.

I'll put this into simple terms, would you like it if you were picked for politics only because you were a Muslim or a Muslim with a lot of money? No, because if that were the case, you might have some people claiming to be Muslim, but aren't, just so they can get into politics.

So, in short, while Karl Marx himself was an atheist, he never said that religion had to be removed from society, instead that it be removed from politics. The United States (in its early days) had this concept, as most people were Christian in the nation then, but their were two main branches (Catholicism and Protestant). In the Constitution, it said that one religion or denomination within a religion will not be held over another.

In other words, in the modern world, Christianity should not be held over Judaism and Islam nor should those two be held over Christianity. Catholicism will not be held over Protestant and neither will Protestant be held over Catholicism, and Shia will not be held over Sunni and Sunni will not be held over Shia.

I hope I have made myself as clear as possible.